Comments on diagram link to Eastern Experiential Learning

I have copied and slightly edited the comments on a previous post as I think the paper on Eastern Experiential Learning is in a useful new direction. The link is-

Comment from John Burgoyne-

The diagramme above just seems to re-label Kolb and does not add any value.I would be intereted in hearing more on the Laurillard stuff
I have a paper: Trinh, M. P., and Kolb, D. (2012 forthcoming). "EASTERN EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING: EASTERN PRINCIPLES FOR LEARNING WHOLENESS." Journal of Career Planning and Adult Development(Special issue: Recovering Craft: Holistic Work and Empowerment. William Charland, Guest Editor). which links East and West. Arguably the roots or experiential learning are in Dewey, the American pragmatist philosophy and Confucious, who must have considerably predated him. Interesting. if you want the paper email me on Here is the abstract: 'Although Experiential Learning Theory originated in the work of Western scholars, many of their theoretical principles have a decidedly Eastern orientation. In this essay we draw out these Eastern principles of experiential learning and suggest an Eastern perspective on learning wholeness in one’s life and career based on an ontological approach to adult development that emphasizes existential ways of being in the here and now—centering, balance, harmony and flowing in the watercourse way.. Regards, John Burgoyne

My reply

John, this diagram is not just a re-label. It is in a different order or at least in different positions. So it is easier to compare with a Deming cycle shown as PDCA. I have had an email about this already which I will transfer to a blog post later.
Thank you for the link to the paper. I have found a previous version online.

Link again, (this is the main point, you should have a look)

The Journal of Career Planning and Adult Development will have an improved version in the special issue and much more besides.

I'm still reading Teaching as a Design Science. more on this later.

John again-

yes it is, generalisation = abstract conceptualisation, applying = active experimentation, experiencing = concrete experience and reflection = reflective observation.

it is even drawn the same way up as the Kolb cycle often is, not that that matters in relation to my point

agree is has much in common with the Demming cycle, where did he get it from?

there is a one nursed are trained in, and is common in the medical world: diagnose, plan, treat, evaluate

and the training cycle: training needs analysis, design, implement and evaluate

I am sure there are loads of others

how do you put diagrammes into this thing? I have a further point I want to make about the ontological cycle that fits with the Kolb one which is epistemologica.

My reply so far-

I don't think you can add a comment with a diagram. But if you send me an email with attachment I will copy it in as a new post.

Deming got it from Shewart but the original Shewart is a straight line, not a loop. Started as a way out of inspection. I don't know how the Japanese interpreted it but they call it the Deming cycle.


So later we need to tidy this up a bit. And also I need to write something about Diana Laurillard's book - Teaching As A Design Science. 

Maybe I can add John as a blogger so images are directly available. We have a #mtw3 group on both LinkedIn and Facebook but stuff is hard to trace sometimes. There will continue to be some sort of record here.